yondaime lives, well acording to this pic and it looks like a naruto scan to me.. i dunno guys.. its possible

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v496/phpking/191cj.png

omfg.. look at it look at it..

naww mi buh believe that this is legit...the forth could be the leader but i doubt this scan proves it

yup its definately a naruto scan but its been an extra in couple chapters now..personally i think Yondaime is still alive until Kish show me a dead body

hmm, i honestly thought first its fake, but it looks really and deep down i feel he's still alive, and maybe naruto's dad too.

i'm investigating

the naruto section of the scan looks reproduced from a previous chapter...so does the kakashi part to an extent....a simple editing...addition of text and voila!..instant bullshit

hmm, i honestly thought first its fake, but it looks really and deep down i feel he's still alive, and maybe naruto's dad too.


if that is the case about him being naruto's dad then that would mean naruto has a whole lot of potential to unlock.... it looks kinda real to me, but it doesn't make any sense y would yondaime be the akatsuki leader? and if he's still alive does that mean he is still the hokage? dat would mean tusanade sama is just a temporary replacement for him. lol...

Look on the bottom left of the pic, will they retrieve the bdsm kit from orochimaru's lair? Last time i checked bdsm thats for bondage and some other stuff... dah this is only a joke guys cho, get me excited for nothing

Look on the bottom left of the pic, will they retrieve the bdsm kit from orochimaru's lair? Last time i checked bdsm thats for bondage and some other stuff... dah this is only a joke guys cho, get me excited for nothing


yes BDSM means bondage and sum other crap, but if u look closly it says BSDM not BDSM, don't know what that means....

on another note though...
my point for why the 4th could still be alive. remember the shadow copy technique the leader used with Itachi and Kisame so that Sasori 2 subordinates looked like them, talked like them and could even do the real person's jutsu.

The 4th if he's the leader in that case could've made someone else take dead while battling the fox while he stayed in the shadows waiting to harnest the power of the jinchuuriki some other time.

also if the leader had told Itachi to get Naruto there is no way anything less than a dead body would do but instead Itachi said that there was no need to rush to get naruto, it must have been alright with the leader for naruto to be left

on another note though...
my point for why the 4th could still be alive. remember the shadow copy technique the leader used with Itachi and Kisame so that Sasori 2 subordinates looked like them, talked like them and could even do the real person's jutsu.

The 4th if he's the leader in that case could've made someone else take dead while battling the fox while he stayed in the shadows waiting to harnest the power of the jinchuuriki some other time.

also if the leader had told Itachi to get Naruto there is no way anything less than a dead body would do but instead Itachi said that there was no need to rush to get naruto, it must have been alright with the leader for naruto to be left


tru but if the 4th is naruto's father he could have taken him frombirth and influenced him, it's just the same as harnessing the power for him self.... isn't it?

i often wonder what these guy are thinking though...persons must have known about the preparation of Naruto for the sealing and if naruto went missing there would be a big search. a search that Yondaime might not have been prepared for.

But now with Akatsuki formed, he has enuff power at his disposal between all of them to fight a ninja village(seeing as how one man killed all the sand's initial defences and Deidara basically walked in), it wouldn't matter who came after them they could defend themselves and basically pwn everyone.

it could be one of those situtations like Itachi telling Sasuke that they need to stick together even if he(Sasuke) hates him.

@ thread lol

Please remember guys... akatsuki leader has orange hair... yondaime is dead, if them bring him back in the anime as anything more than a spirit to talk to naruto i will lose all the ratings i have gathered for kish

Please remember guys... akatsuki leader has orange hair... yondaime is dead, if them bring him back in the anime as anything more than a spirit to talk to naruto i will lose all the ratings i have gathered for kish


LOL.... i'd start classifying it as a soap opera...loll...cause no one stays dead in a soap opera.... dem either get brain washed or sumthin like dat.llol

its easy to speculate still cause technically no one saw him die

Please remember guys... akatsuki leader has orange hair... yondaime is dead, if them bring him back in the anime as anything more than a spirit to talk to naruto i will lose all the ratings i have gathered for kish

really. will. you it might make the story make more sense.. not if he's the leader of akatsuki but if he's not dead... somebody must have been there when him "seal" the fox in naruto.. and youknow doesn't it seem kinda wierd. a big fox is terrorizing the village and he runs in with a "baby" really wtf... or did yondaime actually know how ot create life with ajutsu "making naruto form nothing".. something is missing and guess who knows the answer

only one man..

its easy to speculate still cause technically no one saw him die

preciesly my point henderson we haven't even seen his body as compared to all the other hokage's of konoha.. 1st, 2nd, we saw the 3rd die.. what so special about yondaime.. away from stories we hear about him we know nothng. absolutely nothing at all.. another i still dont remember if it was ever answerd. why the hell is the 3rd hokage hokage if there was a 4th.. was it like he retired and came out of retirement.

the case presented it self with the 1sst and the second they were both rulling at the same time. becuaes i remember them both speaking to sarutobi ont he hill saying your gonna be the next hokage your gonna take care of konoha blah blah blah.

yeah come to think of it...how long was he the 4th before he died. cause in the gaiden he was just an elite jounin. there is alot more to the story than kish has told us.

i mean on one occassion we actually saw zabuza die only for him to be alive the next episode. so why couldn't the 4th, the greatest ninja known in naruto be able to find a way to survive..we saw Itachi and Kisame die only to find out that they were reflections and not the real persons. if the 4th is the leader it would make sense for him to be alive seeing that jutsu.

only 2 times have we "witnessed" a sealing...naruto and Gaara. the akatsuki leader was involved in the sealing of Gaara so why is it hard to believe that the sealing of naruto couldn't be done by the same person

*sigh* Ok according to the manga (i will post pics later).The fourth did not do any ordinary sealing jutsu, he did a different kind of sealing jutsu. The differences between this and the ordinary death god jutsu done by the 3rd is that: This allows the jutsu user to pick where the item to be sealed is sealed, and also it allows for the item and the container to share chakra.

They both share the same problem though, the user will die. There is no question as to whether it was a death god jutsu, its just that the method of sealing was different. Therefore it is not possible for the user to live, unless he somehow managed to fight the death god (u a try tell me seh him rasengan di **** death god?). Being the death god is a supreme being etc etc that is highly unlikely. You see unlike other people dieing, there is never a sure death. for example, rai trapped under the rocks (filler arc) he wasnt necessarily dead, just beaten up really bad. Zabuza getting stabbed in the neck, he wasnt dead it was done skillfully by a anbu lvl person. And my theory also of Obito being alive, in that we saw him under some rocks, we dont know if the jutsu was strong enough to kill etc etc

But there is a difference when you are face to face with the death god... you are going to die, there is no guess about that. As i said before anyway... if dem bring back the fourth, i will lose every single rating i have for naruto... every one i dont care if its the coolest scene in history... it just doesnt make sense as to how he would escape the death god.

*sigh* Ok according to the manga (i will post pics later).The fourth did not do any ordinary sealing jutsu, he did a different kind of sealing jutsu. The differences between this and the ordinary death god jutsu done by the 3rd is that: This allows the jutsu user to pick where the item to be sealed is sealed, and also it allows for the item and the container to share chakra.

They both share the same problem though, the user will die. There is no question as to whether it was a death god jutsu, its just that the method of sealing was different. Therefore it is not possible for the user to live, unless he somehow managed to fight the death god (u a try tell me seh him rasengan di **** death god?). Being the death god is a supreme being etc etc that is highly unlikely. You see unlike other people dieing, there is never a sure death. for example, rai trapped under the rocks (filler arc) he wasnt necessarily dead, just beaten up really bad. Zabuza getting stabbed in the neck, he wasnt dead it was done skillfully by a anbu lvl person. And my theory also of Obito being alive, in that we saw him under some rocks, we dont know if the jutsu was strong enough to kill etc etc

But there is a difference when you are face to face with the death god... you are going to die, there is no guess about that. As i said before anyway... if dem bring back the fourth, i will lose every single rating i have for naruto... every one i dont care if its the coolest scene in history... it just doesnt make sense as to how he would escape the death god.

your assuming that the fourth used the death god.. why would he use the deathgod to seal life into a child? doesn't make sense to me.. gaara was also a jinchyuuriki and i figure is teh same method that was used. who died for him?

if the fourth is really gone then there are gonna be a lot of unresolved things. like naruto's origin.

No i am not assuming that the fourth used the death god method, it was stated by both jiraiya and the 3rd at different points in the anime that the 4th used the death god method... i just too lazy to start reading through all the naruto manga again.

The reason why the fourth sealed the fox into naruto is why i say that naruto is the 4ths child. The fourth knew that he was going to die so he had a choice, seal the 9 tails in him, and die with it or use the 9 tails to protect his son who was just a few weeks or months old. Jiraiya had stated it when he first met naruto, he said that the fourth used that particular sealing method so that the fox could protect naruto. Why would the 4th decide to protect any random child? Must've been somebody special, his son? kid brother? nephew etc.

But we forget that there is a living person who does know wat happened in the fight and that is gama bunta (ok not a living person but a living frog). The 4th did summon gama bunta in the fight against the demon fox. That is how I think Kishimoto will reveal why naruto, wat jutsu was used etc.

But i am not assuming though, it was stated that it was a method of the death god jutsu, just with some changes in the sealing method etc

And also the same method was not used to seal shukaku into gaara. Gaara's method of sealing entailed more than one person as stated by granny. She stated that she was one of the persons who put shukaku into gaara. Also the next thing about gaara is that shukaku was captured by the sand and was being stored in a jar. So the method was different. About 8 people (this part is just theory now) gather around this baby and this jar do some whole heap a sealing and bam one demon in one pickney and a new jinchuuriki

something still not right yute you can pussyfoot around it all you want but something smells funny, where the fourth is concerned. I mean the guy just up and goes nobody knows exactly how he died I wouldn't even be surprised if the fourth is naruto (re-incarnated)

later i'm gonna watch the fight between orochimaru and the third to take alook at the seal design on the thirds stomach when he did the death god technique and the seal on naruto. to see if its the same

Ok i will go check the manga... cho... now i goin spend all day looking for this when i supposed to be doing work... cho... (dont worry i dont have any work to do anyway). Will post screenies in a little bit

Edit: Ok i guess i found them quicker than i originally expected... but anyway. Here is Naruto's sealing method done by the 4th

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d95/Skillachi/naruto-11-1-11.jpg

And here is Sandaime Hokage's Sealing method... i am sure you all ntoice the obvious differences

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d95/Skillachi/Naruto_v16_ch138_p049.jpg

I am going to search for a better picture of the 4th's seal and get back to you

No wait poor example... bad skillachi, i will post a pic after jiraiya took of orochimaru's work... gimme a couple a minutes

Ok now here are better pictures of the seals used by the 3rd and 4th

The 3rd's seal

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d95/Skillachi/Naruto-123-13.jpg

The 4th's Seal

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d95/Skillachi/naruto-11-1-12.jpg



Now if you dont look closely you will say, hm... same thing i dont see any difference... but pay attention to the kanji... you will realize that the kanji used in the seal methods are different. Hence the difference between the 3rd and 4th sealing jutsu

why would hte fourth seal the 9 tails in a boy when he could just have sealed it in the god o death?

why did the 4th allow a litte bit of the 9 tails chakra to seep out so that naruto could use it? he must have had future plans for it

and with that said.. the fourth did not use the deathgod... you proved your self wrong ;)

why would hte fourth seal the 9 tails in a boy when he could just have sealed it in the god o death?

why did the 4th allow a litte bit of the 9 tails chakra to seep out so that naruto could use it? he must have had future plans for it

your thinking along the lines that henderson and I am. its obvious that something fishy is there. it just doesn't make sense.

Ahhh dammit, you goin haffi mek me go find the chapter where jiraiya said he used the death god now... thats harder to search for than the seals you know... cho!!!!

The 4th sealed the 9 tails in a child to protect naruto... PROTECT

read what jiraiya said in the picture above, "its to protect this kid, right the 4th". If you did have a pickney or somebody close to you and you know seh you ago dead, but you can give the pickney something wah mek him can't dead, you wouldnt give it to the pickney? If not you obviously are some kind of ultra fassi who musn't have no kids.

hmm. i feellike this wont be solved untill kishimoto tells me this himself. because we have no ties with naruto to the fourth, meaning. there's no mention of him being his father, or ne thing like that or an uncle or even a friend of family... (what family btw) they makeit seems as if the fourth jutsu created a boy as well from nothing

That adds to the emotion of the anime, I believe that naruto is either a reincarnation of the 4th or his son. But i think a son is more feasible.

question, who was the yellow lightning person again? flash ninja...that was the 4th right? so assuming that naruto is his son we might see naruto step up his speed game a bit? ok that's going a lil off on a tangent

anyways someone said earlier in this thread that Gama Bunta was summoned in the fight against the demon fox...can anyone else confirm that?

and it's been stated several times in the manga that yes indeed the 4th died after sealing him, so if kish brings him back he gonna have nuff **** explaining to do

Yes lighting yellow person is the fourth but, just because naruto is the 4ths son (if he is) doesnt mean he will have the same speed as the fourth. It is not like the 4ths jutsu was a bloodline limitation or anything of the sort. Him did jus damn fast thats all.

Ahhh dammit, you goin haffi mek me go find the chapter where jiraiya said he used the death god now... thats harder to search for than the seals you know... cho!!!!

The 4th sealed the 9 tails in a child to protect naruto... PROTECT

read what jiraiya said in the picture above, "its to protect this kid, right the 4th". If you did have a pickney or somebody close to you and you know seh you ago dead, but you can give the pickney something wah mek him can't dead, you wouldnt give it to the pickney? If not you obviously are some kind of ultra fassi who musn't have no kids.


y would he need to protect a baby? why harm could naruto have done, why would bad men want to harm so much that the 4th seal a demon inside him 2 protect him. isnt that a bit selfish, by sealin the 9 tails in him the strongest of evil villians will always be after naruto, so by doin seal he is not really protectin him but makin him a prime target. and also he 4th must have known that one day someone will unseal the 9 tails again and hundreds will die. so if he did mean to protect naruto he did so at hte risk of hundreds of lives

y would he need to protect a baby? why harm could naruto have done, why would bad men want to harm so much that the 4th seal a demon inside him 2 protect him. isnt that a bit selfish, by sealin the 9 tails in him the strongest of evil villians will always be after naruto, so by doin seal he is not really protectin him but makin him a prime target. and also he 4th must have known that one day someone will unseal the 9 tails again and hundreds will die. so if he did mean to protect naruto he did so at hte risk of hundreds of lives

ding ding ding.. thats why your my apprentice we think alike.. regardless of what the manga has said so far indirectly the actions chosen by the fourth seem to dispute the logic or the actions them self. and they have said htey fourth died in the sealing of naruto but nobody can prove it. nobody can state why i doubt they even know what happened, how many o fthem do you htink were even there.

y would he need to protect a baby? why harm could naruto have done, why would bad men want to harm so much that the 4th seal a demon inside him 2 protect him. isnt that a bit selfish, by sealin the 9 tails in him the strongest of evil villians will always be after naruto, so by doin seal he is not really protectin him but makin him a prime target. and also he 4th must have known that one day someone will unseal the 9 tails again and hundreds will die. so if he did mean to protect naruto he did so at hte risk of hundreds of lives

But you forget a few factors... First of all he was in the heat of battle and him know seh him ago dead. You think him have the time to stop and say to himself "I wonder if this makes sense" "Will Narry(his nickname for naruto) be ok?" "Wont people want to kill him after this?". No Him just stop and say to himself... "**** mi ago dead, nobody fi tek care a mi one yute, arite hear wah, mi ago gi him dis, use a special method fi mek sure seh di fox ago gi him power when him inna trouble and therefore nah go can jus dead so." w00t and seal it ****. Not a word more about it.

And how him goin know seh somebody goin unseal the 9 tails, do you realize that the leaf village was the only village that didnt have a jinchuuriki (as far as the anime states anyhow)? Demon fox just decide seh him want to mash up a village and guess wat leaf was the prime target. The 4th also left Naruto in the hands of people him know woulda take care of him, meaning, Jiraiya the 3rd and Kakashi (ok probably kakashi was just a coincidence).

so is jiraiya.. his meeting naruto was just a meer coincidence.

has it occured to anyone else that we do not know the name of the fourth hakage, cause yondaime jus tmeans fourth. yon = four in japanese. we know the thirds name as sarutobi but not the fourth.. the fourth is too much of a mystery i dont know if i'll rule him out of the story as yet.

...the forth is alive in some way or the other...he is too well known and too much of a profound effect on the story of Naruto to be just "dead"

though it is good to look closely into story of any excellent literary work it is important that we excersize some control our speculative story telling and future plot twist asumptions...

Ok well let me ask you this then

Note i am not agreeing that the fourth is alive

Lets say the fourth comes back... what happens then?

So the speech goes like this:

Kakashi(who i am guessing will be the person to recognize him as the fourth): Yondaime-Sama... you...are...alive

4th: Yes kakashi-kun, i am alive and well, do you think a meer fox could destroy me? (well if he is evil i am sure he would be cocky wouldnt he)

Kakashi: How...why...

Naruto: This is the leader of akatsuki!! The 4th Hokage!!!

4th: Naruto-Kun i was so happy to know that you are alive, now i can finally take out what i have placed inside you

Jiraiya: So that was the reason y u placed the kyuubi in him, to use him later on

AND THEN WHAT!?!? A huge fight, the fourth taking on naruto and all of the nin's actually planning to win? he explains that he found out if he captured all the beasts he would become god and what? Thats not a plot twist that kishimoto normally gives. Try to picture that plot twist... its more like a plot curve, thats so boring and unoriginal it would be disappointing.

The super good guy of all the anime is suddenly the super bad guy? plus he dyed his hair orange, even cooler so now he is yondaime who isnt the yellow flash but the orange flash? Lameness all around, the 4th being the akatsuki leader is lame and a boring plot twist. Once it can be predicted its lame and boring and everybody has been predicting that...

The only reason why the 4th must come back in the anime is if he left a biography around with all his jutsu's that naruto finds (or that jiraiya or tsunade gives naruto) and through reading it we get to see the story of the 4th... other than that lame. Mek di dead man stay dead

But you forget a few factors... First of all he was in the heat of battle and him know seh him ago dead. You think him have the time to stop and say to himself "I wonder if this makes sense" "Will Narry(his nickname for naruto) be ok?" "Wont people want to kill him after this?". No Him just stop and say to himself... "**** mi ago dead, nobody fi tek care a mi one yute, arite hear wah, mi ago gi him dis, use a special method fi mek sure seh di fox ago gi him power when him inna trouble and therefore nah go can jus dead so." w00t and seal it ****. Not a word more about it.

And how him goin know seh somebody goin unseal the 9 tails, do you realize that the leaf village was the only village that didnt have a jinchuuriki (as far as the anime states anyhow)? Demon fox just decide seh him want to mash up a village and guess wat leaf was the prime target. The 4th also left Naruto in the hands of people him know woulda take care of him, meaning, Jiraiya the 3rd and Kakashi (ok probably kakashi was just a coincidence).


this is not makin sense to me, the 4th was the hokage so he must have been wise, sayin stuff like "**** mi ago dead, nobody fi tek care a mi one yute, arite hear wah, mi ago gi him dis, use a special method fi mek sure seh di fox ago gi him power when him inna trouble and therefore nah go can jus dead so." makes no sense

i have seen the 4th in the kakashi gaiden and he seem like a person who is always calm and collected so sayin stuff like what i quoted in red makes no sense. his 1st priority as the hokage is to take care of the village. sealin the 9tails in a baby and not in the death god seems foolish because he would be loosin his life and the village will be in the same position again if someone opened the seal.

I'm already past the fact of him being the akatsuki leader but dead.. i'm not too sure about that. old boy fourth lives, there's gotta be more to it than what we know.

Alright, i can work with the 4th being alive, but only on the condition that the 4th is a good guy. If he is a bad guy of any sort then the kish can kiss ma ass...

AS A MATTER OF FACT I HAVE PROOF THAT THE 4TH IS DEAD!!!! W0000T I JUST REMEMBERED IT AS I TYPED THIS POST.

During the Sound invasion when orochimaru was fighting against sandaime, and orochimaru used the jutsu to call forward the hokages to fight, the coffin with the 4th inside it came up. And Sandaime said he must make sure that that coffin doesnt come up. Which means that he knows that the fourth is indeed buried inside that coffin. If he had a doubt that the fourth wasn't in the coffin say the fourth's body was not found, then he wouldnt have worried cause he would've said there is no body in there for him to fight against, just a tshirt wah him used to wear or something of the sort. Cause i am sure the 3rd went to the 4ths funeral

AHA!!!!

hmm... possible... however i dont know that for sure. were there' numbers of any kind written on the coffin.

listen its either he's alive or them gonna do some flash back in the manga. and i dont see that happening so...

Yes the numbers were written on the coffin, well the kanji for 1st and 2nd was written on the coffin. So and Sarutobi instantly knew that orochi was summoning the kages. I say once again IF sarutobi had a doubt as to whom he was summoning he wouldve simply been too frightened and say "What is he doing". Sarutobi knew exactly who orochimaru was summoning once he saw the first coffin and the 2nd coffin, therefore expecting the 3rd coffin he did all that he could to stop it. Because he knew the 4th was next

I just thought about something else also... Chances are its highly likely naruto was the 4ths son or brother or something like that... instead of a reincarnation. y?

When Naruto and Jiraiya went to get tsunade. Jiraiya introduced her as Uzumaki Naruto. Upon saying that Tsunade instantly knew that this was the holder of the kyuubi. How would she have known that simple because of a name? I am sure that it was something simple like everybody just know seh 9 tails gone inna 4th son or brother etc.

then again its just a theory

what funeral, we saw no funeral for the 4th. and body lookin like the 4th could have be put in is coffin.

remember when the the fake itachi and kisame were fightin, it was the akatsuki leader that created them, if the 4th knew that jutsu then someone could have been buried in his place OR he could have use hte jutsu to create a fake fourth and have him seal the 9 tails in naruto.

whether what i say is true or not, there is some mistery about the 4th and the mistery was created purposely by kishi. could naruto be the 4th but have no memroy of his past life? if i am remember correctly it was a jutsu that created naruto, he did not come from a woman

what funeral, we saw no funeral for the 4th. and body lookin like the 4th could have be put in is coffin.

remember when the the fake itachi and kisame were fightin, it was the akatsuki leader that created them, if the 4th knew that jutsu then someone could have been buried in his place OR he could have use hte jutsu to create a fake fourth and have him seal the 9 tails in naruto.

that's what i've been saying...if ppl look closely at the shadow reflection jutsu, the 4th could easily have escaped death while his jutsu was being executed