As most of us in here know, when we look for anime or rip our own, we try to get it in the best possible quality. The codec we use for encoding our anime has a lot to do with this (quality) and personal usage has shown me that the X264 codec rules where it comes to anime. Codecs aside, the truth is that AVI is old. AVI as common as it may be, is just another container format (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Container_format) that is used to hold audio and video together; which is why you have an AVI file with DIVX/XVID video and MP3 audio. The problem with AVI is that it doesn't support subtitles unless hacked (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_container_formats) and is limited in its abilities. Though most of us, and myself, have seen a lot of our anime in AVI format, and when ripping it is usually the container of choice, in more recent times (about a year now maybe......) and with the discovery of other formats, I have found that the Matroska -MKV- (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matroska) format is the best [in my opinion].

With MKV, if you use the tools available from the home page (http://www.matroska.org/) you can extract each part of the file: AUDIO / VIDEO / SUBTITLES. Meaning if you want just one audio stream (Japanese / English) you can extract it. If you want just the video, you can extract it. If you want to re-compile the MKV with only the video and the English audio track, you can do so as well. The MKV format is just so very flexible (IMO).

You can also see some good results coming from the OGM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OGM) but it's not as flexible as MKV. The beauty of MKV, as seen by myself when ripping, is that you can take almost every aspect of your original DVD and place it into a playable media file. So I ripped my HOWL'S MOVING CASTLE and included both Japanese and English audio, and English subtitles. This means that I can choose to either watch the show in English, or Japanese with English subs. Kool huh? Granted the more audio streams added to the file means that the video quality will deteriorate (unless you have a larger file size to compensate), I still use this format, and get very good results. If you look on the list I have in the TRADE section, you can see which were ripped by myself. Wallace & Gromit was ripped by me as well, and just yesterday (03/08/06) I played it for someone who was not familiar with the format, and all he could say was that it's hard to tell the difference between the file and the DVD. This was because it was ripped with the X264 codec (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X264) and not because of the MKV container. What surprised him about the MKV, was the fact that you could turn on/off the subtitles whenever you wanted, and that I had ripped the regular audio and the directors comments as well.

Don't take my word for it, go to the sites listed (mostly wikipedia) and check it out for yourself. As far as I'm concerned, MKV is the thing to use, OGM next, and all other formats fall behind those. MP4 is decent, and has good flexibility, but as personal preference, and as MKV is open/public/free I'll go with that. OGM is also free, which is why it's my second choice.

You will also notice that many of the subbing/ripping groups online have made this move: AVI - OGM - MKV. They have moved from one container format to the next, and are finding MKV more flexible as well. Those who have not made the move are usually stuck on OGM since they have all the tools and additional software to work with it, and don't want to change what works. The ones that usually have AVI only are subbinggroups, who want their presence to be known, and the subtitles to be hard-coded into the video so that their work is not used elsewhere. Granted they could still do that (watermark the video) and make the subs soft-subs in either OGM or MKV, but I can't tell a man how to do his job.

Reading maketh a full man..........

PeAcE.

damn long read, decent tho.I agree with u, MKV is lovelycuz of its flexibility with multiple audio streams, good read yute

This is debatable, best is such a relative word best for whom. is always the question to throw at things like these. To the average person that watches anime and doens't even know much about the video progs they use they rather avi..

Cons about mkv

In the event that the default language is japanese some people wont know how to change the audio stream to english, or put up english subtitles

It still isn't very popular (not every codec pack carry's an mkv decoder but 90% if not all will carry avi, dvix/xvid decoding)

MKV doesnt really wow me. If it had significantly smaller file size than formats then i'ld use it. But it doesn't.. quality wise, its bout the same as divx

But finder a converter for mkv files... lol good luck

This is debatable..........
I don't disagree Freedom. CCCP (http://cccp-project.net/) supports MKV/OGM with both ZOOM PLAYER and MEDIA PLAYER CLASSIC. Personally I use MPC, and use A to switch audio and S to toggle subs. VLC (http://www.videolan.org/vlc/) supports MKV/OGM as well.

Though most computer users and anime watchers are just that - users and watchers - and not devout anime followers, or computer savvy enough to know the difference, for such persons anything they can get is suitable. For someone who loves the anime and is learning the language, something with subs is good. And for someone who is really picky, english audio is what they want.

It comes down to personal preference, but on my part the personal preference is for MKV/OGM not only for quality/archiving/options, but for the fact that I can burn it back to DVD with the dual audio and subs (DVD SANTA (http://www.dvdsanta.com) and AVI2DVD (http://www.trustfm.net/divx/SoftwareAvi2Dvd.html)).

Let's not make it into another CPU/VGA CARD war (AMD/INTEL & NVIDIA/ATI). If it works for you, use it. If you want the options, do the research. If what you want is unavailable, settle for what you can get.

PeAcE.

MKV doesnt really wow me...........
If it's quality you're looking for, then the container has nothing to do with it. It's all about the codec. X264 (http://x264.nl) is the best for anime. Going to test new releases of it with actual movies, but last time (last year) it didn't do so well, but still murdered DIVX and XVID at lower bitrates. These are from both online reviews and personal tests. And regardless of codec, if you want quality size will go up proportional to quality. The "wow" of MKV is that you can have multiple audio and subtitle streams that you can selectively toggle. Size is a factor for this, and as such X264 as a codec is crucial. Better results at lower bitrate than the competition means smaller size. Read it up and make your own opinion. Use what you're comfortable with or what works for you.

so i guess no one cares about rm...recent rm conversion r really good and keep the file size decent...mkv n ogm usually have decnt quality but dam more time u check the file size n wonder wtf y...-_- k i jus check dis vid i have wit da X264 codec n da quality is krazy

RM/RMVB etc is good for watching purposes. If you just want to watch something and don't really care about the quality, then RM is the way to go. It works well for streaming and such, since the size is so small. X264/H264 can be implimented into streaming video, and it is why you see such BEAUTIFUL quality movie previews done in QT format these days. Apple has their own implimentation of the H.264 codec. See links below for more NFO.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.264
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rmvb

Oh, and BTW, I have a post outside which covers the whole codec/filter crap. Click here for the thread. (http://idforums.net/index.php?showtopic=22284)

Here are some settings that I use for CCCP to play any and everything.


First I open up the settings by going to the START MENU and then RIGHT-CLICKING on the options or CCCP section and opening it up. If you don't want to or don't know how, just go to each of the settings individually. The ones we're interested in are FFDShow Audio Decoder ConfigurationFFDShow VFW Codec Configuration and FFDShow Video Decoder Configuration.
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t263/khat17/CCCP-Settings/Settings-01.jpg (http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t263/khat17/CCCP-Settings/Settings-01.jpg)

In the FFDShow Audio Decoder Configuration I go to CODECS and then on the right, I RIGHT CLICK. From the menu I select SET ALL STABLE FORMATS TO LIBAVCODEC.
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t263/khat17/CCCP-Settings/Settings-02.jpg (http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t263/khat17/CCCP-Settings/Settings-02.jpg)

In the FFDShow VFW Configuration I go to DECODER (not the ENCODER TAB).
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t263/khat17/CCCP-Settings/Settings-03.jpg (http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t263/khat17/CCCP-Settings/Settings-03.jpg)

Then I click on CODECS and then on the right, I RIGHT CLICK. From the menu I select SET ALL STABLE FORMATS TO LIBAVCODEC.
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t263/khat17/CCCP-Settings/Settings-04.jpg (http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t263/khat17/CCCP-Settings/Settings-04.jpg)

In the FFDShow Video Decoder Configuration I go to CODECS and then on the right, I RIGHT CLICK. From the menu I select SET ALL STABLE FORMATS TO LIBAVCODEC.
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t263/khat17/CCCP-Settings/Settings-05.jpg (http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t263/khat17/CCCP-Settings/Settings-05.jpg)

The only thing different (and I started doing it for the VFW section as well) is that I change the DEBLOCKING option for H.264/AVC decoding. This is the same as X264, which is a port for H.264 - used for HDTV/BlueRay video.
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t263/khat17/CCCP-Settings/Settings-06.jpg (http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t263/khat17/CCCP-Settings/Settings-06.jpg)

After that, there's NOTHING that I can't play. Basically, if CCCP and VLC can't play it, IMO, it can't be played. There are proprietary formats like FLV which needs a separate player, but I don't mean those. None of the listed formats in the packaged MPC have ever failed me. And if CCCP can't or VLC can't, then I consider it to be a broken video, or incorrect format/extension.

Since CCCP is my primary filter/player pack and not VLC, I usually use MPC (Media Player Classic) which is bundled with CCCP to play everything. Those options are below.

First I start MPC.
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t263/khat17/CCCP-Settings/MPC-01.jpg (http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t263/khat17/CCCP-Settings/MPC-01.jpg)

Next I go to OPTIONS (shortcut is "O" on the keyboard).
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t263/khat17/CCCP-Settings/MPC-02.jpg (http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t263/khat17/CCCP-Settings/MPC-02.jpg)

Then I go to FORMATS and click on the button on the right marked ALL.
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t263/khat17/CCCP-Settings/MPC-03.jpg (http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t263/khat17/CCCP-Settings/MPC-03.jpg)

Then I go to PLAYBACK and only let it play once instead of repeat forever.
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t263/khat17/CCCP-Settings/MPC-04.jpg (http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t263/khat17/CCCP-Settings/MPC-04.jpg)

After that I click OK, and I'm done! For playing QT and RM files, I install the QUICKTIME ALTERNATIVE (http://www.free-codecs.com/download/QuickTime_Alternative.htm) and the REAL ALTERNATIVE (http://www.free-codecs.com/download/Real_Alternative.htm).

PeAcE.

excellent post

I have a lot of my anime in MKV as well and knew a little about it's extracting capabilities, but itially I just preferred the smaller file sizes to avi

also like we said earlier in this thread. mkv and ogg vorbis would get more popular. quite a few stuff i've pulled down as of lately have all been mkv or ogg vorbis.

Maybe a stupid question: OGG is different from OGM? And what they stand for?
Cause I familiar with OGM but not OGG... so whats the difference and which is better?

OGG = Audio
OGM = Video

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogg

Ogg is an open standard for a free container format for digital multimedia, unrestricted by software patents and designed for efficient streaming and manipulation. Ogg is maintained by the Xiph.Org Foundation.

PeAcE.

hhhmm. Wat can I say. Some of these things I didn't kno. But whichever works I'm down with. Not too fussy on flexibility.

Question: In mkv, and I guess in some ogm, how do I fix overlapping subtitles?

Like you have the person talking, but then you have like an explanation (eg. Baka = Idiot) or something else, overlap with the speech sub.

I using VLC at the moment, so I dont know if its a vlc prob or the video format, and how can I fix it in vlc?

PM me - upload the video for me to check it out. The problem could be that the file was muxed wrong, or the subtitle timing (inside the subtitle file) is indexed incorrectly. It could also be that VLC not interpreting the index file properly. Send it to me - or install CCCP and check - and I'll check it out and see if I get the same thing.

www.yousendit.com
www.sendspace.com

PeAcE.

Thanx, but ill just PM you the torrent if you dont mind, because uploading is taking a long time.

OK. The scoop is that VLC has a problem with some MKV files. No problem with the files themselves. One more score for CCCP and one mark down for VLC. As far as I found out, they are working on it. One of the later NIGHTLY BUILDS should fix the problem.

VLC Forum With Info (http://forum.videolan.org/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=40075)

Nightly Builds Link (http://nightlies.videolan.org/)

Direct Download Of Latest (06/10/07) (http://nightlies.videolan.org/build/win32/latest/vlc-0.9.0-svn-20071007-0001-win32.zip)

*EDIT*

Well, tested the latest Nightly Build (unsupported beta) and it still has the subs overlapped. What's happening is that the subs at the top of the screen have their positioning messed up, and overlap the ones at the bottom. No problems with CCCP.

www.cccp-project.net

Page one of this same thread has more info as well. Also added text with info about QT and RM files.


For playing QT and RM files, I install the QUICKTIME ALTERNATIVE (http://www.free-codecs.com/download/QuickTime_Alternative.htm) and the REAL ALTERNATIVE (http://www.free-codecs.com/download/Real_Alternative.htm).

PeAcE.

I would also like to add to the list KMPlayer.

http://www.download.com/The-KMPlayer/3000-2139_4-10659940.html

http://www.kmplayer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63

http://www.kmplayer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4094

http://www.kmplayer.com/forums/index.php

Basically it plays everything. And I mean everything. It even plays FLV!!! It's really nice. The ONLY problem I have with it was with a test file of an anime called "THE SKULL MAN" where - as an MKV - it loaded the subtitles kinda off. At least it didn't overlap them like VLC. This will become my secondary player, since it's fully portable as well. Check it out and post your findings.

PeAcE.

Going offtopic here... did you enjoy The SkullMan khat? I found it cool, did you? :D

Or you just using it as a test subject? :p

Test subject. I haven't gotten the full thing. Later on maybe, but I like what I saw. KMPlayer didn't format the subs priperly, but unlike VLC it didn't overlap them - just had them both at a different posistion on the screen.

PeAcE.

CCCP (http://cccp-project.net) has been updated with MPC-HC (http://mpc-hc.sourceforge.net/).

For your edification:

Media Player Classic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_player_classic) is a compact media player for Microsoft Windows. The application mimics the look and feel of the old, light-weight Windows Media Player 6.4 but integrates most options and features found in modern media players. (Taken from WIKIPEDIA)

Now the MPC project has been halted for some time now, by the developer Gabest. Media Player Classic - Home Cinema (http://mpc-hc.sourceforge.net/) is a continuation of that project by someone else. "This project is based on the original "Media Player Classic" and was created after Gabest, the original author, stopped working on it. Several new features have been integrated in this player" (see the website for details).

Now MPC-HC can play video all on it's own with internal decoders, and now integrated with CCCP, I think it was a pretty sweet move. Download and try for yourselves.


PeAcE.

Now I know that double posting is really not nice - but just so people can see and understand what's going on, I had to do this.

!MPC-HC CAN SEND VIDEO STREAMS TO DO HARDWARE DECODING!
For the video enthusiasts here, and for those who want to test, I have a preview for an anime done in X264.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/q0hu6o<- H264 TEST VIDEO TO BREAK YOUR MACHINE IS HERE. (http://www.sendspace.com/file/q0hu6o)

Download it and you can benchmark your machine based on the performance. As far as decoding H264 videos go, COREAVC (http://www.coreavc.com/) does the best job as a software decoder. For the graph card enthusiasts, you will know that the newer cards by nVidia and ATI come with the power to do the decoding on the card. You may also know that nVidia and ATI advertise POWERDVD and WINDVD (respectively) as the software for use in sending the video stream to the graphics card for decoding. The newest version of CCCP with MPC-HC can do this, and MPC-HC (CCCP) is FREE. POWERDVD and WINDVD with the features to send the stream to the card cost around USD$100, and this can only be done with video formats supported by the player. Neither of those you have to buy support MKV. We'll get to that file format later on.

The fact is, there is now a free player with the ability to send your video stream to your graphics card for decoding. To test it, you need to disable FFDSHOW, COREAVC, or any other H264/X264 decoder you have on your system, and enable the internal decoder for MPC-HC, which will send the stream to the hardware to be decoded.

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t263/khat17/CCCP-Settings/screenshot82.jpg

Note the option H264/AVC - DXVA is checked. Now as a challenge for people who swear their hardware is the shiz. Hehe. Anyone with a single core CPU try playing that without the hardware decoding and tell me what your CPU usage is - with the file provided in the link. I've done this before and on a single core CPU the usage is almost always 100%. With a dual core CPU the usage is between 40% and 60%, but the audio will usually run and leave the video behind. With hardware decoding (I've tested with POWERDVD and with MPC-HC) the CPU usage was like 0%-4%. Try and let us know how it goes.

MPC-HC - STANDALONE PLAYER AS WELL
If you visit the website for MPC-HC (http://mpc-hc.sourceforge.net/), you can download it and just drop it on your thumb drive for use as a PORTABLE APPLICATION (http://portableapps.com) on your thumb drive. It makes nice for a small portable player. Your choices would be MPC-HC, VLC, or KMPLAYER as portable players.

I've fooled around with MPC /CCCP as you have khat (mind you, to a lesser degree, because you think they're candy.)

They are not candy.

I'll give you some sometime.


But anyways..
I've noticed that KM player handles DIVX files better.

Its lighter on the CPU (most of us dont care) with it.

But, I've also noticed that it will give you a peek of taintly coded files then sprout an error message, as opposed to MPC.
VLC tends to be like that VERY much (its prolly king in that area of playing partial files as I'm sure you'll agree with me).

not with DivX partials though.


But alas - who wants to view partial downloads one might argue.

I find the capability handy at times.

As for my FAV players

its either KM/MPC. Its tight.

Kudos for VLC - it carries a bunch of decoders STOCK, so the portable version is quite handy.


I cant remember something.
In addition to CCCP - the other one.

PM meh.